ZX NEXT Vs. who MSX ???

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Por RockRiver

Rookie (24)

imagem de RockRiver

05-08-2021, 10:45

Hi !!!
My question for U is:

Which MSX machine has comparable ZX spectrum NEXT tech features????
2+ ??? turboR ????
Z80 28Mhz / AYx3 / FM / Hardware Sprites / ...
Nowadays nice 50 games:
https://www.specnext.com/software-directory/
reminds me MSX2 graphics... 256 colors...

What do you think about. It's good 8bit "cousin" of our beloved MSX.

:)

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Por aoineko

Master (165)

imagem de aoineko

05-08-2021, 11:43

It's complicated to compare a machine designed in 2017 with MSX from the 80s.
The ZX Spectrum Next is a strange hybrid between elements that bring it closer to 8-bit computers and others that seem quite anachronistic to me.
Having said that, I have the impression that an MSX Turbo-R with a V9990 card could run most of the games designed for ZX Spectrum Next.

Por MsxKun

Paragon (1031)

imagem de MsxKun

05-08-2021, 11:52

Also, as it seems to be FPGA, a 1chipMSX could do, a bit. Some implementations had fast VRAM access if i can remember... so maybe a V9990 not even needed. Then add a Moonsound for plenty of audio channels. But you could also pass with the already internal FM+SCC+PSG. Maybe not all games need the 28mhz and they could pass with 10.
But if you need more Mhz, then go can go full MSXVR Tongue

Por Grauw

Ascended (10064)

imagem de Grauw

05-08-2021, 12:08

Personally, I’m not at all interested in a ZX Spectrum Next type “enhanced” feature set.

For MSX I have a connection to it and like to work within the constraints that it has. You can choose MSX1 for some tough constraints but also simplicity, MSX2 for colourful graphics or boosted pattern mode power, MSX2+ for scrolling power, and turboR for something that really needs CPU power. Even the Graphics9000 already feels like a cheat to me tbh, but if there’s something I really wanted to do that the base systems couldn’t, I would use it.

But then to use a system with a new feature set based on today’s technology which were just a selection dreamed up by some random person or group of persons, I do not understand the connection with our retro system, it seems like a strange extension of capabilities while still imposing unnecessary artificial limitations because you work within an existing architecture, but it’s not really a part of the legacy. At that point I might as well develop for a different existing widespread platform at that point, and gain more enjoyment and user base from it.

For ZX Spectrum, for me the system is characterised by the attribute clash graphics and the bitmap-based games. It is awesome to see what people can achieve with it, e.g. in terms of beautiful graphics or huge software sprites like Travel Through Time. If you expand it so far beyond that, I think it loses what makes a Spectrum a Spectrum. Why not just develop for GBA or Android or something.

Por RockRiver

Rookie (24)

imagem de RockRiver

05-08-2021, 13:11

Maybe MSX-VR could emulate ZX NEXT too oO oO

Por AxelStone

Prophet (3050)

imagem de AxelStone

05-08-2021, 13:42

MsxKun wrote:

Also, as it seems to be FPGA, a 1chipMSX could do, a bit. Some implementations had fast VRAM access if i can remember... so maybe a V9990 not even needed. Then add a Moonsound for plenty of audio channels. But you could also pass with the already internal FM+SCC+PSG. Maybe not all games need the 28mhz and they could pass with 10.
But if you need more Mhz, then go can go full MSXVR Tongue

My 2 cents also for 1ChipMSX / Zemmix, since both of them (1Chip and Next) are FPGAs, so they can be compared.

Por PingPong

Prophet (3760)

imagem de PingPong

05-08-2021, 14:38

there is no strict equivalent. to have something like we would need a FPGA MSX fully compatible with MSX1 with enhanced GFX (but compatible like a V9958 blitter without limitations), for example:
a) Fast register access protocol and Port I/O VRAM access without the ceremony one need to follow to set up a 17 bit ptr
b) Independent VRAM ptr, for read write autoincrement access
c) Fast Blitter (20x)
d) new Sprite Mode, without stupid limitations like scanline limit, magic Y value, and a decent multicolor support
e) OPL emulation
f) PCM support without CPU
g) Z80 @ 28Mhz
h) DMA support

Por Sandy Brand

Master (243)

imagem de Sandy Brand

05-08-2021, 14:44

But the ZX Spectrum Next has new graphics modes and a _lot_ more memory. On top of that it has new Z80 commands apparently. So just because it is a FPGA doesn't mean we can compare it to a 1ChipMSX.

As other people have stated before, this is a very difficult comparison because the the ZX Spectrum Next is build using current day technologies and insights.

Roughly speaking it might be 'comparable' with a TurboR machine?
(TurboR has additional memory, R800 CPU is Z80 compatible but with more commands and faster).

Por gdx

Enlighted (4695)

imagem de gdx

05-08-2021, 15:22

I like the Spectrum Next design but I have an opinion close to Grauw.
I'd rather like a machine that behaves as close as possible to a retro machine but with an ultra-complete debugger. In the case of the MSX, it is good to also include the most common extensions.

Por Timmy

Master (163)

imagem de Timmy

05-08-2021, 15:38

I don't think there needs to be comparison between the Next and the MSX range.

The Next is on the one hand, an updated Spectrum, and in those cases the later editions of the MSX can do similar things.

If we're talking about the Raspberry Pi in the some of the Next's, then it's more comparable to a modern Linux setup, and then you really shouldn't compare that with an MSX.

Keep in mind that the Spectrum never had hardware sprites nor hardware scrolling, therefore the Next is a step forward from the Spectrum 128K (or +3). But the MSX has hardware sprites from the beginning so it's really not comparable.

I would likely not develop any games specially for the Next, but then again I already made games for the Spectrum and they are obviously working on the Next. I might change my mind if I get a physical Next, but no for now.

(I also think it's hard to make something that's really Next only, since they have to look a lot better and has to have more content than 128K.)

Por erpirao

Paragon (1217)

imagem de erpirao

05-08-2021, 17:02

I think a turboR with V9990 is perfectly comparable to the next, and I dare say better.
the turbo R includes r800 that is equivalent to its z80 @ 28mhz, the sound of the turboR is psg + fm that I see better than 3xpsg and the v9990, I see it perfectly comparable to its video system.
of course not counting that the msx has more possibilities of expansion (music module, sfg, mfg, opl4).
the theme of the next accelerator using the pimini, is another story.

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