Possible Speccy to MSX1 game conversions!!!

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Por Paulbrk

Hero (611)

imagem de Paulbrk

30-09-2009, 13:25

Take a look, adding some sprites inside the characters and adding some colors on the background...

img36.imageshack.us/img36/1863/06hysteria.png
By tonigalvez at 2009-09-30
img36.imageshack.us/img36/2604/05myth.png
By tonigalvez at 2009-09-30
img36.imageshack.us/img36/3341/04renegade.png
By tonigalvez at 2009-09-30
img36.imageshack.us/img36/8713/03skooldaze.png
By tonigalvez at 2009-09-30
img36.imageshack.us/img36/7291/02terracresta.png
By tonigalvez at 2009-09-30
img36.imageshack.us/img36/5466/01tornadolowlevel.png
By tonigalvez at 2009-09-30

Msx can do much better!!!

Entrar ou registrar-se para comentar

Por Huey

Prophet (2694)

imagem de Huey

30-09-2009, 14:02

I see some issues here.
It is not impossible. But remember this:

- I see a lot of sprites used for 1 npc.
- You could mix sprites and tiles but this will limit the movements (8 pixel movement or color clash for example)
- Spectrum VRAM access is faster (MSX will look better but play worse in most cases).

anyway: Terra Cresta MSX version video

Por viejo_archivero

Paragon (1395)

imagem de viejo_archivero

30-09-2009, 14:02

Hey tonigalvez! nice to see you here too sharing your designs. Anyway, it seems that you understand MSX1 VDP's graphic specs, but not applied into a "real" enviroment inside a game (were you must cope with the VDP bottleneck, z80 calcs, etc...). Most of those speccy2MSX screens are possible as a screen 2 screenshot, but not into a real gameplay engine.

Adding sprites over patterns is nice, but you must take in account that overlapping hardware sprites with software sprites during the ingame (taking your Renegade shots as a example) needs that you must clip your hadware sprites when they are "behind" software sprites: so you will need double the z80 calcs than the spectrum version for the sprite part, that just mask the software sprites. And then, when the clipping is done in RAM you'll need to transfer those clipped sprites again to VRAM in order to show them!. So, what you suggest is a graphical change that will cause a severe downspeed to the gameplay (lots of additional z80 calcs for sprite clipping plus lots of additional VRAM transfers for updating the sprite table).

I mean, your desings looks nice, and they are possible to display on an MSX1, but I doubt that most of them are really doable (talking about gameplay). It is not my intention to spoil the fun, your racing game designs look really nice and they are (more or less) doable: but those ones are nice gfx adaptations, but they simply can't be done without severe gameplay slowdowns...

Por Paulbrk

Hero (611)

imagem de Paulbrk

30-09-2009, 14:21

Viejo archivero, is not necesary to clip the sprites, maibe it looks rare but will work without cliping, you will see the one sprite over the other and the black line.

Take a look on green beret msx version, it works like this, sprites maibe the game is bad but the technique for the characters is good.
That is because you can see 4 characters without flickering.

Por Paulbrk

Hero (611)

imagem de Paulbrk

30-09-2009, 14:23

Huey, the movement can be 1 pixel.

Por viejo_archivero

Paragon (1395)

imagem de viejo_archivero

30-09-2009, 14:29

Viejo archivero, is not necesary to clip the sprites, maibe it looks rare but will work without cliping, you will see the one sprite over the other and the black line.

In fact, in Green Beret there is not sprite clipping, but that's because the sprite part of each character is really big, and it does not look that bad that sprites overlap the black part (they really do that, please re-check Green Beret ;D). But, in your Renegade design, that the sprite part is just a few pixels over the patterns, it will ba a must to do sprite clipping, because if not, it will be REALLY ugly.

Por Paulbrk

Hero (611)

imagem de Paulbrk

30-09-2009, 14:34

The sprite part on all the screens is the color inside the caracters, I see that you misunderstood.

Por viejo_archivero

Paragon (1395)

imagem de viejo_archivero

30-09-2009, 14:45

Yeah, I am probably mistaken Tongue

Por SLotman

Paragon (1242)

imagem de SLotman

30-09-2009, 14:57

There are several limitations to do this kind of thing. In side-scrolling fighting games, where the player can move up and down (going in front or back of enemies), this is practically impossible, since you'll have to re-sort sprite order all the time - huge slowdown!

To color just the player sprite, then it may work. But still...

To color static graphics (like scoreboards) is a simple task. To color background GFX is a completely different beast, since the images are arranged in a linear kind of way, instead of "MSX SC2 format" - and it's all rendered in RAM. If the game has just an static screen background, this could be achieved - but for a scrolling game, it would be such a task that would be easier to write everything from scratch!

Of course, you can have "static colors" like the GnG convertion - for example, doing a small blue gradient on a static sky - if the game doesn't re-write the colors all the time Tongue
img36.imageshack.us/img36/1863/06hysteria.png
(ex: if in this screenshot the game from beginning to the end of that level has the same background colors, those screenshots - talking about the bkg gfx only - could be easily done)

Por pitpan

Prophet (3155)

imagem de pitpan

30-09-2009, 15:03

I feel a lot of hidden flickering in those graphics... More than 4 sprites in a row and you're ready for an epileptic episode.

Por SLotman

Paragon (1242)

imagem de SLotman

30-09-2009, 15:05

I was about to re-edit my post to say that... for that ammount of sprites, you'll need an MSX2. MSX1 can only have 4 sprites per line Tongue

And probably will ending up needing a 7Mhz MSX or a turbo-R, just to compensate and keep the game at the same speed as the speccy version Tongue

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