Howcome noone has reused Konami's engines?

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Por Totta

Rookie (22)

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21-01-2010, 17:55

By now, we know that Konami had excellent knowledge about the MSX hardware, especially the graphic chip. The designers took the limits into account when they drew the backgrounds and with a clever use of multiplexed hardware sprites and lots of software sprites they became the masters of having many objects moving at the same time on the screen.

We also know they used the limits to achieve effects that would otherwise be hard to make, like putting high priority sprites at the top of the screen which meant that Popolon in Knightmare could wanish gradually through the exit wall at the end of the levels, etc.

But since all those tricks are known now and since even Knightmare Gold was created, by now people must be able to reuse those tricks in their own software to achieve similar effects.

On the C64 it was common that developers looked into other games's codes and ripped it out and used it in new productions. This was very much the case with C64 music where several composers used other composers music routines, but also complex graphic effects were "stolen" (or borrowed).

So when can we see the first game with the Nemesis or Knightmare engine reused? I'm not talking about creating a similar from scratch but more of reusage of the existing code.

With the knowledge now, it should not be hard to create Knightmare 1.5 with new levels.

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Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9774)

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21-01-2010, 18:26

Mayhaps because we have programmers who like to code things.

Just as there are piano players who like to play a song them self instead of playing a CD with that song.

Por Totta

Rookie (22)

imagem de Totta

21-01-2010, 18:47

So what you are essentially saying is that if someone invents the wheel, you will invent the wheel again?
Isn't it kindof counter productive not to stand on the shoulders of giants?

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9774)

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21-01-2010, 18:54

If wheels were pointless to invent, then there would be only one company to produce wheels. However: http://www.performancemarket.com/wheels.htm

What I'm saying is that programmers simply like to program. Heck, I could name a German coder who is/was working on a Windows look-a-like GUI for MSX2 and Amstrad.. may be pointless, then again, he liked doing that.

And as for Knightmare, put:

"using Konami's code, must be sorted out first in order to work"
and
"Let's start from scratch, so it may be done sooner than digging into Konami code from two decades ago"

on a balance, and I think the latter will win.. :P

Por muffie

Paladin (933)

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21-01-2010, 18:54

I must agree with Totta wolf.
It should be fun to reverse engineer Knightmare "engine" and create another game. Just like the three dragon story (BTW, Zemina already did that!!)
Zemina was much better than Brazilian Companies of the 80's. They used to just change the texts directly on the binary files.
(C) Casio was changed by (C) Gradiente

Por muffie

Paladin (933)

imagem de muffie

21-01-2010, 19:10

I think that probably Daniel Caetano may have enough knowledge on the Knightmare engine to create newer levels.

BTW,

[link]http://www.caetano.eng.br/MSXPage/breeze/scrshots.html[/link]

Por Totta

Rookie (22)

imagem de Totta

21-01-2010, 19:22

"Let's start from scratch, so it may be done sooner than digging into Konami code from two decades ago"

I find it amazing that it's been 20 years and noone (maybe with the exception of Caetano) has found out what made Konami's engines so spectacular and ahead of it's time. It's been 20 years, folks, and still noone has made anything better.

Heck, if Konami would create demos they would give DVik a fight for the money.

Por Hrothgar

Champion (479)

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21-01-2010, 19:30

I am by no means an MSX code expert, but may I suggest that the success of Konami games may not so much have been about driving the machine to its technical limits through an 'engine', but rather a fine combination of playability and graphical design?

Recreating those games and the feeling they gave when playing involves a creation process, not so much technical code reuse.

Por hap

Paragon (2021)

imagem de hap

21-01-2010, 19:34

Yes, Konami games are great for their design/gameplay/etc.
On technical level, some of the later fan created games (eg. Manbow 2) are much, much more impressive.

Por Totta

Rookie (22)

imagem de Totta

21-01-2010, 21:17

So you are not saying that it's a greate game engine developed for Nemesis? Come on. Look at the number of moving objects. Look at the end bosses. Look at the versatility in attack patterns. Look at the collision detection.

Also remember that they reused the engine for at least three more games (Gradius II & II and Salamander).

It was definately an "Engine".

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9774)

imagem de wolf_

21-01-2010, 21:54

Sure it's great, it's just that I'm not sure whether today's MSX programmers ( = 'us' ) would want to rip that engine to create a new game with it. Universe: Unknown's engine was more or less running in something like three months. So, as developer you make a decision then: "do we rip an engine we don't know a thing about, which may take months to understand and another month to make the right tools for it?" or: "do we create from scratch, having everything under our own control?".

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