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By thegeps

Paladin (895)

Аватар пользователя thegeps

09-01-2020, 18:40

Poltergeist wrote:
mars2000you wrote:
Manuel wrote:
Manuel wrote:

The WIki says that the VG 8230 was the 2nd MSX2 by Philips and the NMS 8220 the first. I think it's wrong, the 8230 was the first, the 8235 second. Not sure about the rest of the order though, but it's pretty clear when looking at the review in magazines.

Or did I miss something and is there some proof that the wiki is correct?

I just found a Philips newsletter and it says the 8230 is available from 1-1-1986 as the first MSX2 machine.

Interesting ... There's still a question: is the good order

1 - VG-8230 / NMS 8220 / VG-8235
OR
2 - VG-8230 / VG-8235 / NMS 8220 ?

Easy: NMS abbreviation was introduced after the release of the VG-8235, so the NMS-8220 is newer. Also, the first MSX2 machines philips released had a diskdrive, while the NMS8220 was released as a "cheap" alternative.

So, VG-8230/VG-8235/NMS-8220 is the correct order

Are you sure about what you said of NMS introduction? My VG8020/40 is NMS marked too...

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Dtw5gr3STVVy5reHb9nTRb-89t...

By hamlet

Scribe (3743)

Аватар пользователя hamlet

18-07-2021, 21:49

As far as I know, there was no 8220 sold in Germany, only the 8235 and later the 8280, so we didn't wonder.
Of course the 8220 and 8235 also had that cool NMS brand. Beyond Philips' MSX engagement it was poorly part of the Videowriter VW x50 series and some Videotext computers released in Italy but silently died afterwards. Also I got 1510 Cassetteplayer with and without the NMS brand.

By gdx

Enlighted (4830)

Аватар пользователя gdx

10-01-2020, 01:55

sd_snatcher wrote:

ENIG is just not suitable for connectors, and because it's too soft it will suffer from wear just like tinned contacts.

Tinned contacts are more problematic than simple wear. This can damage the contacts of the MSX connector (pins can sink in and catch on), and can create short circuits over time because the tin becomes frayed when it ages.

By Grauw

Ascended (10175)

Аватар пользователя Grauw

10-01-2020, 12:14

There is also a difference between wear and corrosion… For a game cartridge wear seems to be less of an issue to me than it would be for extensions like a CF/SD interface or sound cartridge which are plugged in many times over a long period of time. Whereas corrosion is a problem for longevity no matter what.

By sd_snatcher

Prophet (3486)

Аватар пользователя sd_snatcher

10-01-2020, 22:16

@gdx and @Grauw,

Ok, I see your point, but there are some more things to consider. My point is only that if the finish is ENIG, it shouldn't be advertised as "gold contacts" just because it's of golden color. It should be honestly advertised as just ENIG, then it's up to the buyer to decide if he likes it or not.

There's another important difference that ENIG lacks: when the real "gold fingers" process is used, the border of the PCB is finished to have a 45 degree angle, in order to not force the slot connector contacts, allowing them to last longer. Consequently the insertion also requires less force, and will put less pressure on the motherboard. This is specially important right-angle slots, like the rear slot of many MSX computers.

The term "Gold contacts" (or the more technically correct "Gold fingers") should only be used for hard-gold contacts with a 45 degree PCB border.

Note: The two things are not mutually exclusive. The PCB can have "gold fingers" on the EDGE connector, and ENIG finish on the rest of the PCB. OTOH, HASL (tin) finish is mutually exclusive with the "gold fingers" EDGE finish.

By gdx

Enlighted (4830)

Аватар пользователя gdx

05-05-2020, 10:05

sd_snatcher wrote:

My point is only that if the finish is ENIG, it shouldn't be advertised as "gold contacts" just because it's of golden color. It should be honestly advertised as just ENIG

Yes but it is not so simple. When we order PCBs in China for example, they make simple ENIG contacts even when we order hard gold.

Anyway it's not easy to known the difference to indicate it in the wiki but the more important thing is to have a good surface planarity. This is not the case for tinned surfaces. In addition, tin is too soft a material.

sd_snatcher wrote:

it's up to the buyer to decide if he likes it or not.

The buyer is not necessarily aware and most sellers do not leave the choice. Although the ENIG contacts of the PCBs do not change the price of a cartridge so much (1 dollar max) for buyers, for the seller it can make a surplus of 50 dollars to make 50 cartridges.

sd_snatcher wrote:

The term "Gold contacts" (or the more technically correct "Gold fingers") should only be used for hard-gold contacts with a 45 degree PCB border.

Yes beveling (or rounding) is also necessary to preserve the MSX connector for the longest time.
"Gold fingers" normally involves beveling but I saw a lot of PCBs with ENIG, tinned and even aluminum contacts with the connector edge beveled.
I have not yet seen a cartridge without beveling but this may be because I avoid questionable build cartridges.

By pgimeno

Champion (302)

Аватар пользователя pgimeno

18-05-2020, 17:29

I'd love to have an info page on boot keys. Some are pretty universal (shift, ctrl...), many will be model- or device-specific (like Esc or 0 in MFRSCC+SD); in any case I think it would be nice to have that reference.

By S0urceror

Master (194)

Аватар пользователя S0urceror

18-07-2021, 17:21

The MSXVR in the Wiki deserves some love.

I intend to add a number of things to it like troubleshooting tips, how it runs in the Linux host OS, how you can tweak things like running OpenMSX or X11 on the device. And links to the various English information available on the internet like the programming manual.

What do you recommend? Add everything thing to various pages (don’t know if that is possible) or in the current page with different sections. Or do you want to keep it short and concise?

And last but not least. Does it belong under Other hardware or should we have another category of MSX hardware like DIY or RetroNew. For the FPGA based, DIY models and MSXVR?

Let me know what you think?

By mars2000you

Enlighted (6019)

Аватар пользователя mars2000you

18-07-2021, 18:54

MSVR is actually in 2 categories: Other Hardware and Emulation.

It is different from new MSX2+ based on FGPA, because it is based on Raspberry PI 3B+, which is a computer itself.

I would suggest to create a MSVR category that would be a sub-category of the Emulation category, so you can add several pages about MSXVR (the current existing page would be the intro page). I can do it, if you think it's a good solution.

Maybe also a FGPA category as sub-category of the Emulation category, just because FGPA is actually hardware emulation.

I think a DIY category already exists. It can include more different projects than only hardware emulation.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (6019)

Аватар пользователя mars2000you

18-07-2021, 21:20

Correction: I mean a MSXVR category of course!

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