MSX HDMI mutlimedia card

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By PingPong

Prophet (3586)

Аватар пользователя PingPong

25-07-2014, 20:14

maxis wrote:

It would be great having PoP on MSX, wouldn't it? On one hand, the SW development from the scratch is less likely to happen

PoP is hard to do on 8 bit. Even with a hw assisted gfx.
I think this is doable fine on msx2. I've never seen a lot of animations nor a scrolling by brute force. IMHO PoP is perfectly doable on a plain msx2 with v9938 and sw sprites assisted by blitter.
What i think is a show stopper is the memory resource demand. It appears to be memory hungry... how can fit in a CPC or ZX with only 64K?

By maxis

Champion (512)

Аватар пользователя maxis

26-07-2014, 01:03

PingPong wrote:

PoP is hard to do on 8 bit. Even with a hw assisted gfx.
I think this is doable fine on msx2. I've never seen a lot of animations nor a scrolling by brute force. IMHO PoP is perfectly doable on a plain msx2 with v9938 and sw sprites assisted by blitter.
What i think is a show stopper is the memory resource demand. It appears to be memory hungry... how can fit in a CPC or ZX with only 64K?

PoP was originally developed for the Apple ][. The source code is published and downloadable. And it seems very playable on this platform.

Graphic wise, PC, Amiga and CPC share the same multicolor graphic design. And in this sense, CPC stands off offering almost the same gaming experience as 16/32 bits.
Looks like the visible CPC slow down only occurs when the floor panels fall down in multitude and the protagonist keeps jumping and running at the same time.
It seems to me too, that the standard MSX2 has enough resources to run the whole show in screen 5. Good benchmark would be a single room demo with something like 5 torches, 6 falling panels and half-obscured running protagonist (partially behind the pillars).

Also one of the interesting moments - CPC version torches. See how the flames go? The are all different, asynchronous. Kudos to the guys who ported it!

SMS, however, is full throttle using tiles + sprites. So, all torch flames are beating in unison... They could of done it differently with more pattern name table counters. Looks like a quick knock off...

By hit9918

Prophet (2897)

Аватар пользователя hit9918

26-07-2014, 03:29

"Also, IMHO, if more platforms can be made compatible within MSX universe -
more legacy software to run we will have"

sega jukebox is great.
"sega VDP for MSX" is babel.
I am not sure whether the difference is clear.

Like, I am not saying "halp, games of other computer, plashpemy, yadda".
In the one case "sega jukebox", the program that is running is a game for sega master system.
In the other case there is... no program, and a 5th VDP asking to get coded games.

By hit9918

Prophet (2897)

Аватар пользователя hit9918

26-07-2014, 04:18

by the way what about coleco? takes little extra transistors?

By maxis

Champion (512)

Аватар пользователя maxis

26-07-2014, 11:37

hit9918 wrote:

by the way what about coleco? takes little extra transistors?

No, no Wink I thought, that all the titles were ported long ago to MSX. MSX1 or SMS fits easily Procyon FPGA together with all the peripherals and Z80.

By maxis

Champion (512)

Аватар пользователя maxis

27-07-2014, 00:34

hit9918 wrote:

In the other case there is... no program, and a 5th VDP asking to get coded games.

Actually I'm not offering the 5-th VDP. I'm saying - Look there is CPC, which has some cool games too. Why not to add this one to the list?
And also the principal difference is that there is no game modding needed. MSX will act as the keyboard/joystick controller only at the CPC/SMS game runtime. The rest is embedded on the Procyon card.

By looking at the V9990 timeline from mid 90-s till now, which makes already good 20 years, I do understand, that releasing the 5-th VDP will unlikely get ANY SW support, IMHO.

So, for the moment, I'll stick to the legacy only.

However, here we had a discussion about the sprite 1 mode extension upgrade the famous titles with multicolor sprites.
So, there are some professionals (enthusiasts), who would be interested to give the second multicolor birth to MoG for example and this is awesome. I do count on it!

By Halfaxle

Resident (52)

Аватар пользователя Halfaxle

28-07-2014, 14:28

maxis wrote:

Absolutely, however with clever programming the sprites can be overloaded on the fly. But maybe this technique wasn't used for the game design.

Apparently it was.

maxis wrote:

CPC+ is an interesting beast for a benchmarking since it is neither the true shared memory nor the VRAM centric architecture.

IMHO it's mere shared memory arch around 6845... no matter.
Not only benchmarking! It's also a real work for superprocyonSmile At first sight if virtual cpc will be provided on 64k "slot" window, the games will be runnable on main msx cpu. Hope procyon will be able to spy on the bus for keyboard/joystick events.

maxis wrote:

Right, V9958 provides one background + one set of sprites. By having 4 of them the decent video effects can be achieved close to the mid line arcades of the late 80-s. Parallax scrolling, priorities have to be solved by the video bus mixer logic (there is a separate chip in Konami arcades).

Smart ramdac-mixer will be able to do even alphachannelWink

maxis wrote:

Maybe somewhere, one of Arduino or Propeller enthusiasts is already building the multi VDP arcade, since there is no shortage of the chip suppply. It wouldn't surprise me if something like this will surface in the nearest future.

I wonder. But it would be intreresting if i am wrong.

maxis wrote:

Direct access to VRAM only is beneficial for the relatively small video buffer(less than 10 Kbytes). ZX spectrum is a good example of such approach. Otherwise, VRAM should be separate, I agree entirely. In arcades even the video space is rommed and not accessible at all (tile patterns).

Framebuffer is the option?Smile At least for first-time loading direct access is good. But no "shared" vram at all.
And yes. ZX is wery well balanced.

maxis wrote:

Yes, once a single model of 9958 is developed, several instances can be packed into the design. There are 2 limitations, however:
- The physical size of the FPGA;
- The maximum memory bandwidth.

Any way, multiple vdp requires a kind of interconnect bus for ramdac/mixer. So external mezzanine style extensions is possible (yes, i remember about "no spare pins" issueSmile

maxis wrote:

But after all there is a need for the SW support of such an architecture. As we discussed in the past, it would be cool to have the RTOS with legacy window (virtual VDP) per task. Then the approach could be compatible with the legacy software. Let's see how it will go.

I know how it will go! Slowly and sadlyWink

Babel-mabel.
Guys! Don't treat Procyon like a cause for some changes to msx. It's the extension to have fun with. ASCIIs MSX2+ specs are still on dutySmile (i do'nt like 9990 he-he-he)

And can somebody confrm that CPC/CPC+ is suffering from the "video slowdown" when it operates in extended banks, outside of main 64k?

By gdx

Prophet (3905)

Аватар пользователя gdx

03-08-2014, 11:20

Great project! Smile
Do you plan to make a version with gold contacts?

By st1mpy

Hero (604)

Аватар пользователя st1mpy

03-08-2014, 13:01

is it available to order soon?

also, if I wanted to use it as a fpga development board and wipe the original binary file, is the original file available if I want to put it back to as it was?

By maxis

Champion (512)

Аватар пользователя maxis

03-08-2014, 13:09

gdx wrote:

Great project! Smile
Do you plan to make a version with gold contacts?

Hello, yes, the edge connector gold plating is absolutely possible for the trial batch. Anyway the card has to be rerouted to improve DFM (design for manufacturing) and fix a few small errors.

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