MSX1 vs C64

Страница 6/11
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11

By Grauw

Ascended (10013)

Аватар пользователя Grauw

30-01-2018, 22:39

Your own fault for not skipping every 6th interrupt @ 60 Hz in the music replayer Big smile.

Not unique to MSX either, btw. Though odd that this replay speed compensation was not common practice in commercial titles at all. Maybe the slight shuffle it introduces is too audible after all? (I never thought so, but…)

By syn

Prophet (2061)

Аватар пользователя syn

30-01-2018, 23:59

PingPong wrote:

are you deaf or are you kidding?

I said depending on situation as in depending on type of music. From what I've heard SID is better at basslines/drums and "synthy" sounds, more suitable for synthpop and upbeat type of music. OPLL works better for more "classical" tunes that require things like strings/trumpets etc. As I said I feel they are all equal because each have their strengths and weaknesses.

By PingPong

Prophet (3755)

Аватар пользователя PingPong

31-01-2018, 01:03

syn wrote:
PingPong wrote:

are you deaf or are you kidding?

I said depending on situation as in depending on type of music. From what I've heard SID is better at basslines/drums and "synthy" sounds, more suitable for synthpop and upbeat type of music. OPLL works better for more "classical" tunes that require things like strings/trumpets etc. As I said I feel they are all equal because each have their strengths and weaknesses.

I do not agree. I've never seen anything out of a SID nor PSG that resemble to a instrument with a decent fidelity.
from sid or psg what i hear is only a less or more elaborated plethora of sound effects. Nothing more.
here you can listen something the SID can't dream to reach https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zl7lvQixIc
And please consider that this OPx chip is not the most sophisticated.
Compare the clean sound of the OPx to the always noisy and chainsaw like output of the SID.

OPx is clearly superior. AS FM synth is superior to the SID way to generate sound.
Effectively the SID is only a more sophisticated PSG, it features triangle and sawtooth waves and a ADSR control and a kind of 'ring' modulation but is essentially a more advanced PSG. Nothing more.

By Grauw

Ascended (10013)

Аватар пользователя Grauw

31-01-2018, 02:11

And a filter. I don’t think calling the SID an advanced PSG is entirely fair, it’s essentially a subtractive synthesizer (which is the most dominant type of synthesizer nowadays), in a home computer.

But, just like there are people who love classical music and people who love drum ’n bass and glitchhop, there are people who like the FM sound a lot, while others like a more raw (but still complex) sound. Even outside sound chips, some love the Japanese style of compositions, some like the European mod-type tracks more. Some people love arpeggios, some hate ’em. We are all already in a niche anyway, because when I let someone listen to some chiptunes, not many of them appreciate it very much Smile.

So, what I wanted to say with this is, SID is a good sound chip, and whether it is better or worse than low-grade FM like OPLL is entirely subjective. Best you can say is that the OPLL has more channels, which at least is a quantifiable advantage. But the sound generation techniques and capabilities are not directly comparable, the OPLL can not generate the sounds that the SID does, nor vice versa, thus in terms of their timbre they are really complementary. The SCC, too, with its wavetable synthesis. As a musician who wants to expand their soundscape, if you have a subtractive synthesizer, probably you would be looking for an FM or wavetable synthesizer next.

(Although, one could argue with the right tools and moderate CPU support, the SCC can do all three types of synthesis, so it is really superior to all… Wink)

By syn

Prophet (2061)

Аватар пользователя syn

31-01-2018, 02:13

Uuuh i said opll aka msx-music aka ym2413 aka fmpac. Your example shows opl2 thats a different beast.

And as i said three times now, it depends on situation. For example when you need real time control over the cutoff filter or want a pwm type of lead id say SID over opll. I suppose both effects could be faked on a opll using basic tracker techniques but results may vary.

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5839)

Аватар пользователя NYYRIKKI

31-01-2018, 06:08

Did you know that PSG can emulate SID as well? Hear this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr1r6FSrsz4

By Samor

Prophet (2105)

Аватар пользователя Samor

31-01-2018, 07:25

Funny, I think it does a better job than the C64DTV Tongue
We need an MSX port of that.

By ren

Paragon (1855)

Аватар пользователя ren

31-01-2018, 11:14

Let's indeed not go the 'my chip is better than yours' or some kind of zealous route. Apples & oranges. Some people simply appreciate both their characteristics / strengths and cool tunes that have been created on/for them Wink

I'd like to add the story of Tim Follin here. Arguably one of the most prolific (chip) VGM composers, but, as he seemed to have said at a certain point, didn't really like composing on/for the chips, as he considered them to be mere SFX generators, and not something to compose music on/for. His wish was to work with 'real' instruments (which got fulfilled once Red Book Audio for games became available).

Very ironic thing here, as a lot of his tunes/soundtracks are amongst the most appreciated ones, yet it seems he didn't get much satisfaction out of it himself.

If you don't know the vid yet, or are not familiar with Follin, worthwhile, informative, and fun to watch: Artist Feature #2: Tim Follin (39 min, non-narrated)

There's also the following < 7 min. narrated video: Tim Follin: The Best Game Composer You Never Heard Of

(Btw (for the sake of giving credit where credit is due ;)): his brother Geoff did composing as well, and I believe they did some stuff, soundtracks together (their styles are similar).)

By Samor

Prophet (2105)

Аватар пользователя Samor

31-01-2018, 11:47

I hope you didn't mean my comment, I just meant I find the emulation in the video NYYRIKKI posted to be more accurate than the SID design in the C64DTV (which is a single-chip reimplementation of the C64). That's not to look down on the DTV, it was/is far more impressive than many clone systems around.

I agree with some here that OPL can have a bit of a cold, emotionless sound, I think MicroCabin (amongst others) solved that by giving the PSG an important role in their music as well.
A similar thing happens in many Mega Drive games (I think the Mega Drive sounds similar-ish to FMPAC+PSG with the addition of better drum effects).

As for the SID, I didn't really know the music until much later (C64 emulation) and I quite appreciate it. Most of it indeed sounds very "busy", similar to what the Russian's produced on the PSG (Spectrum 128k).

By JohnHassink

Ambassador (5578)

Аватар пользователя JohnHassink

31-01-2018, 12:01

Samor wrote:

I agree with some here that OPL can have a bit of a cold, emotionless sound, I think MicroCabin (amongst others) solved that by giving the PSG an important role in their music as well.
A similar thing happens in many Mega Drive games (I think the Mega Drive sounds similar-ish to FMPAC+PSG with the addition of better drum effects).

Only if you don't do additional stuff to it and leave everything at default. Indeed, PSG can help, but older MSX games that supported OPLL when it was relatively new tend to use it in a very basic way. It's for instance remarkable that Compile tuned the percussion from the get-go while T&E Soft or even Bit² didn't do anything like that.
I agree that the same is true for Genesis/MD music. There's plenty of examples of Genesis music that is far from cold or emotionless (or "synthetic"/"tinny" as FM sound is sometimes referred to).

Страница 6/11
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11