Wiki editing discussion

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By sdsnatcher73

Paragon (1351)

Аватар пользователя sdsnatcher73

08-12-2020, 06:24

Some things that come to mind after reading this:

1. HID, meaning human interface device(s), is generic enough to be used in MSX world. It is used (and we can use it) to identify a subset of the devices we connect to our computers. In MSX case through the general purpose connector. In my opinion it is just how the English language has evolved. Again in my opinion it is not a very clear term as technically a monitor and printer are also human interface devices but in general I don’t believe these are considered HID.

2. I agree MSX-HID as such is not a standard, not even de-facto. Let’s take the mouse as an example. If you want to detect an MSX mouse’s presence on one of the GPIO ports you would have to read the fingerprint and compare it to the known fingerprint (30h,30h,30h). So at least this fingerprint seems de-facto standardized (I disagree with them being unintentional, then we would have seen duplicate fingerprints for completely different device types). But did software actually use the fingerprint to detect mice? Honestly I am not certain, to my recollection most software just required you to use a specific port for mouse. Some software always read that port and without an actual mouse connected the pointer would move to right-down corner. So what would describe MSX-HID? Could we say it is a documented collection of fingerprints and a described method of how to best use these to detect HID that connect to our MSX’s (and can actually be read by MSX software)?

By gdx

Prophet (3911)

Аватар пользователя gdx

08-12-2020, 08:27

I don't dispute the method but how you present it. It's just a trick which does not have an official name.
I think it should be clarified and even indicated that it is not very reliable because the values can be erroneous simply by manipulating the device. So this is not an ideal method to detect devices automatically. It is best to use this method for informational purposes only. To indicate to connect the mouse for example.

Fingerprint is caused by the components so yes it is unintentional. If we change the components the fingerprint changes. MSX joypads and joysticks have no component so they don't have a fingerprint. They cannot be detected by this method.

By keith56

Master (154)

Аватар пользователя keith56

08-12-2020, 08:44

I have to say, I read the documentation on MSX mice on this site the other week, and I (apparently incorrectly) assumed MSX-HID was some kind of standard when it came to mice on the MSX system due to the way it was phrased.

By gdx

Prophet (3911)

Аватар пользователя gdx

14-12-2020, 13:16

I created the wiki for the Beer IDE interface and MiSiX. I put what I could find as info.
A lot of things are undoubtedly missing. If you can fill in what is missing, do not hesitate.

By Briqunullus

Champion (261)

Аватар пользователя Briqunullus

14-12-2020, 20:25

Did you copy some text from the MF-DOS page? You forgot to change the name at one reference. Smile

Anyway, good work. I did not know about this clone. I hope to give it a try in the near future. And talking about MSX-DOS clones, today I got mail from NSG, one of the developers of Nike-DOS. He could tell some interesting details. I'll add them to the page soon!

By gdx

Prophet (3911)

Аватар пользователя gdx

15-12-2020, 09:04

Briqunullus wrote:

Did you copy some text from the MF-DOS page?

Yes, these two DOS are alike.

Briqunullus wrote:

Anyway, good work. I did not know about this clone

Thank you. MiSiX seems a bit more achieved and advanced than MF-DOS.

By Briqunullus

Champion (261)

Аватар пользователя Briqunullus

19-12-2020, 09:36

NSG has filled in on the unknowns of Nike-DOS. I could update the page with the workings of the BOOT, LOAD and SAVE commands.

By gdx

Prophet (3911)

Аватар пользователя gdx

23-12-2020, 12:16

I would like put a "Click to show" to programs with a long listing, is this possible?

By Grauw

Ascended (9489)

Аватар пользователя Grauw

31-12-2020, 01:42

Grauw wrote:

On the PSG wiki page I added a table of machines which output stereo. For a number of machines the balancing is known (looked up in openMSX source), which I’ve extrapolated to the other machines of the same brand. For other machines the channel balance is not known, so it would be nice if this could be determined.

Next, I noticed the National FS-5500F1 and National_FS-5500F2 pages claim these machines support stereo PSG output, however their chipset is listed as the Yamaha S3527 (evidence), which only outputs mono. These superimposing machines have stereo inputs, so I think only those are output in stereo and the PSG is mono. I think we should remove the stereo PSG sound from the description.

The National FS-5000 also claims it’s stereo, but this one actually has a stereo/mono switch on the back and does not have any audio inputs. The chipset is listed as “Probably Yamaha S3527 or Yamaha S1985”. If this machine is indeed stereo as the presence of the switch would suggest, then the chipset must be the Yamaha S1985 or else a discrete PSG or Toshiba engine.

Lastly the Sony HB-F900 page also says it’s stereo, however the main unit only has a single mono output. Perhaps a stereo signal is sent to the HBI-F900 AV unit, I can’t determine this absent a service manual, but it would be nice to confirm.

About the National FS-5500F1/2, since Quibus replied “This is like the 8280. PSG is mono, despite stereo output.” and nobody contested, I removed them from the stereo section of the PSG wiki, as well as the mentions of stereo PSG on their respective pages.

By gdx

Prophet (3911)

Аватар пользователя gdx

31-12-2020, 02:06

MSXs of this kind have a stereo output for the signal coming from the external video. The sound output from the MSX remains mono. Except Toshiba and maybe Pioneer that have a kind of hybrid stereo output.

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