Greenest MSXing!

By pitpan

Prophet (3144)

Аватар пользователя pitpan

01-09-2021, 10:09

Hello everyone.

Today I was just wondering how our different MSXing styles impact upon power consumption.

I guess that the "real" MSX computers are power hungry, but I do not know if there are noticeable differences between different generations, although that I reckon that add-ons, such as disk drives and other upgrades will surely have a big impact. But is more efficient an all-in-one MSX-engine "newer" computer or an old school MSX computer with an array of separated chips?

On the other hand, what about FPGA implementations? I supose that they are more efficient when it comes to power. Are there noticeable differences between them?

And what about a third option, such as emulated MSX on low-power computers, telephones or tablets such as Raspberry Pi/MSXVR, Intel SOCs, RISC CPUs? In this case scenario, the emulator used does impact the power consumption? Shall I prefer WebMSX, openMSX, blueMSX, ruMSX, fMSX, no$msx?

I would really like to confirm all these assumptions with real data, but I do not have the means to test all these. Do you guys think that this could be interesting as a community project? I'd love to know what is the most eco-friendly MSX usage scenario when it comes to power consumption. And I am not talking about CO2 footprint, that would be much more difficult to assess...

Thank you all!

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By Jipe

Paragon (1502)

Аватар пользователя Jipe

01-09-2021, 11:04

we must reconsider the current consumption of a real MSX by adding that of the monitor used
on service manual
a Philips CM8833 which alone makes 75w
a Sony KX-14CP1 85W
for real MSX we find the consumption of the service manual
a HB700 is given for 42w
a Turbo-R A1GT for 22w

By gdx

Enlighted (4693)

Аватар пользователя gdx

01-09-2021, 11:06

MSXs alone consume less than 40 watts in general and OCMs much less.

By pitpan

Prophet (3144)

Аватар пользователя pitpan

01-09-2021, 12:01

I remember that my good and old Sanyo MPC-64 (that looks similar to the Japanese model MPC-3 / Wavy-3), that has an internal power supply, after some hours got hot enough to keep your coffee/tea warm if placed close to the power button.

But the sticker underneath says that it is only 16 watts.

By Manuel

Ascended (18133)

Аватар пользователя Manuel

01-09-2021, 12:05

That's really a low power usage for the FS-A1GT. A Philips VG 8020 is pretty simple and is on 24W!

By sdsnatcher73

Prophet (2229)

Аватар пользователя sdsnatcher73

03-09-2021, 06:12

But I think we should measure the actual consumption. The label or service manual likely indicates what the power supply CAN output MAXIMUM not what the typical usage is. That is how electrical equipment is typically labeled.

By ducasp

Champion (460)

Аватар пользователя ducasp

03-09-2021, 15:30

pitpan wrote:

Hello everyone.

Today I was just wondering how our different MSXing styles impact upon power consumption.

I guess that the "real" MSX computers are power hungry, but I do not know if there are noticeable differences between different generations, although that I reckon that add-ons, such as disk drives and other upgrades will surely have a big impact. But is more efficient an all-in-one MSX-engine "newer" computer or an old school MSX computer with an array of separated chips?

On the other hand, what about FPGA implementations? I supose that they are more efficient when it comes to power. Are there noticeable differences between them?

And what about a third option, such as emulated MSX on low-power computers, telephones or tablets such as Raspberry Pi/MSXVR, Intel SOCs, RISC CPUs? In this case scenario, the emulator used does impact the power consumption? Shall I prefer WebMSX, openMSX, blueMSX, ruMSX, fMSX, no$msx?

I would really like to confirm all these assumptions with real data, but I do not have the means to test all these. Do you guys think that this could be interesting as a community project? I'd love to know what is the most eco-friendly MSX usage scenario when it comes to power consumption. And I am not talking about CO2 footprint, that would be much more difficult to assess...

Thank you all!

Power wise:

FPGA <<< Raspberry Pi <<< MSX w/ some Chips integrated into one packaging chip < MSX w/ all discrete components

If we take into account that 5W is more than enough to reliably run a Cyclone IV with a MSX2+ at turbo speeds w/ disk storage, large mapper, SCC, OPL3, Wi-Fi and FM (it probably uses even less than 5W) and compare with a system similarly loaded, that power bill difference is even higher... Just a floppy interface or a Beer IDE with an IDE drive or a Mega SCI plus a SCSI drive will added quite a lot to the power bill, SCC and FM and mappers might add an extra 5 to 15 Watts depending on their design. Even a modern solution like SD Mapper or other All In One interfaces like Carnivore and GR8Net will add a couple watts over (and let's be honest that if we are comparing original vs modern, those interfaces shouldn't be considered as they were not possible at the time of "Original").

I don't think that a Raspberry PI emulating a MSX will be lower power than a Cyclone IV, as it has to run a guest OS and has a pletora of subsystems on the SOC that might be working on low power state or not, those use 12.5W power supplies and tend to run into issues with lower specced power supplies, and emulating, even though an older system at lot lower speeds, usually requires the CPU usage to be a little bit high and not allowing lots of power savings during emulation (I just remember of that whenever I run BlueMSX or OpenMSX and the fan on my laptop kicks in making lots of noise that it doesn't do while browsing the web or using office applications or an IDE for programming). But it will probably look favorable to a real system, even the ones that have chip integrateds, even more so if you count for additional hardware like mappers/scc/fm/etc

I need to find were I've stored my Kill-A-Watt and could easily supply the numbers for SM-X (FPGA, Cyclone IV), Multicore 2+ (FPGA, Cyclone IV, might use lower power as it doesn't have the MSX external bus and don't use +/- 12V on the power supply) and a Raspberry PI 3B+... Let's hope it is not at my mother house, if so, it will take quite a while until I go there again, but theoretically, I would expect FPGA to be less than 5W, Raspberry PI to be within 5 to 7W, a goood real system with integrated ICs and newer batches of other ICs to be around 10W and a the very first ones to draw 20 to 40W (I think the ones that would consume most energy would be the ones that were originally a MSX1 and then received conversion kits that added subslots, subbios, mapper, RTC and VDP on top of the existing boards, here in Brazil those kits usually required changes to the original computer power supply to make it give you a few extra Watts).