Guinness World Record for Metal Gear

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By Latok

msx guru (3925)

Аватар пользователя Latok

06-06-2008, 19:14

*click*

They hand out Guinness World Records for everything nowadays :D....

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By nikodr

Paladin (748)

Аватар пользователя nikodr

07-06-2008, 05:35

Many people will not know that stealth in metal gear was used because of original msx2 vdp limitations!

On an interview of Kojima i read that he used stealth because msx2 could not display more than 4 sprites per row without flicker,so that limitation had somehow to be hidden.(we are talking about double sprites,as i know msx2 can easily display 8 sprites per row).

That limitation of msx2 was the reason we have metal gear today.A great example that we should never have too much freedom in our hands.(freedom in that sense is the best gfx card or tons of ram).On one hand evolution is something we cannot neglect yet we should never sacrifice our imagination.Kojima did not have the freedom of using a nvidia geforce card with 1024 mbytes of ram in 1987.He had to find a way to overcome the limitation of 8 sprites.

The lack and limitations of msx2 machine boosted one man's imagination to create a good game based on stealth.If msx could display more sprites i am sure this would not be the game we all know now.Stealth because of 4/8 sprites per row.Good limitation if you ask me!.

How likely is that to happen in 2008?What limitations do we have today when gfx cards dvd roms,blue ray,and gigas of ram are used?

Unfortunately imagination is long gone!everything is lost in the name of gfx and sound.

Where is that little thing that a programmer would have to struggle and fight with the memory map of the machine.The frustration that one would have to squeeze more data in a 16kbyte segment,and find a way to have a faster interrupt handler for greater effects?Feel the frustration that he has to write better psg like tune because 3 channels seem to be so few.

Nowhere!

All is sacrificed for gfx and videos.People are sometimes so empty in their lives that they want to see a real like video to shake their imagination.Back in the 80-90 decade some pixels that represented a sprite could trigger our imagination and our brain could create the greatest "movie" like in our thoughts.(being empty in that sense is not always bad,i mean that our craving for good gfx and sound almost leaves the gameplay area of games out!)

Those were the days,and i wish that we could learn something from that area and use it nowdays.

Now most people that go to universities or study in classes programming lessons do not learn machine code.

"Machine code is difficult and uneeded in our time"
Yet miracles have happened because of it.

Nowdays windows and operating systems steal the programmer of his imagination.Faster graphics cards and sound cards offer even a newbie the way to create wonders.

But all these are same,repetations and boring...empty wonders.The same and same.Nothing spectacular.Each work seems like it is the same.

I know what i say will make lots of arguments to appear,but this is my purpose,to hear other people's opinions.

Good morning....it is 6:35 am in greeceSmile

By Latok

msx guru (3925)

Аватар пользователя Latok

07-06-2008, 10:59

Amen to that Big smile

By ro

Scribe (4902)

Аватар пользователя ro

07-06-2008, 11:29

g'murnin'.
I agree, 99% Smile

By erikd

Master (255)

Аватар пользователя erikd

16-09-2008, 18:28

I disagree 99%
(sorry for bumping an old thread, but I just had to react to this)

I think faster CPU's, more memory, etc has helped creativity in games tremendously.
It's easy to get all warm and fuzzy out of pure nostalgia, but the reality is that 99% of the old games were all the same and most of them sucked too.
If mr. Kojima got his idea because of a limitation in the MSX' hardware, it is because of mr. Kojima's creative genius, not because limitations are good.

No, I think creativity is in the minds of people, not in the limitations of hardware.

By Metalion

Paragon (1622)

Аватар пользователя Metalion

16-09-2008, 18:55

I have to react to that reaction ... Tongue
I too believe strongly that constraint is the mother of creativity.
We learn it the hard way in the automotive industry where I work.

Of course, creativity is in the mind of people, you are right about that, but it is triggered under specific conditions, limitations and constraints being some of them. And in the case of Metal Gear, it is indeed a strong case : the story told above is exactly what happened.

By erikd

Master (255)

Аватар пользователя erikd

16-09-2008, 19:20

My point is that while I agree (that's the 1% I agree with Wink) that a constraint might in some circumstances trigger creativity, constraint far more often than not just limits creativity.

Maybe it's also a bit of a chicken & egg discussion. Which was first: creativity or constraint?
I for one strongly believe that creativity came first, and that creativity is mostly fuelled by opportunity, not by limitations. It's creativity that can turn a limitation into an opportunity, it's not that a limitation makes opportunity out of creativity (I hope I'm still making sense here Tongue). A subtle but important difference imho.
A limitation is just that, a limitation. It limits stuff, such as creativity.

By LeoM

Master (229)

Аватар пользователя LeoM

17-09-2008, 09:02

When there is a problem people are forced to think about a solution, and sometimes come up with great ideas, which they never would have thought about if the problem wasn't there.

Indeed, the new technologies give us possibility's to create things we could never dream about, but without that trigger, we probably never will...

By erikd

Master (255)

Аватар пользователя erikd

17-09-2008, 12:27

I agree that problems can trigger people's creativity for solutions, but what I have a problem with is the notion that technical limitations are good and progress is bad for creativity (which is exactly what nikodr stated). In my opinion that's reasoning backwards.

I also don't agree that games nowadays have become less creative. On the contrary! The new possibilities of today's hardware allowed for many great innovations in gameplay and the rise of a whole wide range of new genres.

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (10088)

Аватар пользователя wolf_

17-09-2008, 12:39

It all depends on the person who's about to get creative. If the person is a beginner or otherwise not very creative then the person may want the aid of limiting borders in order to set a course (read: let the limiting factors guide him). If the person is very experienced and creative however, the person may want to set his own borders or otherwise set course without borders. Any existing borders may obstruct that course then.

Oh, and the expression: "real artists never blame their tools" is also wrong.. Tongue

By erikd

Master (255)

Аватар пользователя erikd

17-09-2008, 14:37

"It all depends on the person who's about to get creative. If the person is a beginner or otherwise not very creative then the person may want the aid of limiting borders in order to set a course (read: let the limiting factors guide him). If the person is very experienced and creative however, the person may want to set his own borders or otherwise set course without borders. Any existing borders may obstruct that course then."

Yes, that makes sense, and is actually kind of my point.

With all due respect and without trying to be offensive, but in my honest opinion I think nikodr's post (is he still here?) got it all backwards and smells like a "everything was better in the past" kind of attitude that is usually found with old people, and which in itself is not a very constructive or inspirational attitude.
This doesn't mean we shouldn't enjoy nostalgia like MSX, but to say that 4-sprite limitations are "Good limitations" and that "imagination is long gone" because we don't have such limitations anymore is just taking nostalgia too far.

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